Stop Internet Lynchings of Activists

[AyatollahGondola]

Don Silva is an admirable character who SOS was lucky to have. His intelligence, reasoned behavior and dedication to principle were a credit to the organization. More specifically, things at Save Our State really didn't start to head into a tailspin until he was removed from the equation. And insofar as that last assertion is concerned, this is not simply "my" opinion. Joe Turner has said as much.

From an activist standpoint, and relating to all of his activism, he was a credit to the org. But in that regard, most of Chelene's was as well. The problem is, you have to apply the same standards to OP as you do with Chelene, or me or any of us for that matter. If you do that, the question is whether their activism outweighs the negative characteristics or negative impact on the movement and the SOS organization. As individuals, they both shined in activism. In a collective though, each had a different degree of failings. OP = great activist; so-so management. Chelene = great activist; lousy management. Now when I say lousy or so-so management, it is relative to their handling of the membership, the direction of the organization, and the impact upon the movement as a whole. What was or is at the root of those failings is in the eyes of the examiner.
From my standpoint, I saw OP do some damaging things too, and wondered why. Just like Chelene, I was tolerant because of group unity, infighting, and most of all, their past contributions. But he may have been victimized by Chelene's schemes, or he may have had a similar, but lesser degree of Chelene's characteristics. We may never know now, because he dropped completely out of the movement. That is an interesting aspect of former activists. Many of the really hot ones were also short timers. I'll say this though; As far as personality quirks go, I could put up with a lot more of OP than I could of Chelene

[sandinator]

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[AyatollahGondola]

You know, I would like to restate my position on this issue again, because this thread may seem a bit like a lynching too. I still hold that I'm willing to be tried by a jury of my peers within this movement. All of these posts in this thread are open to scrutiny, and this forum has not limited anyone from posting opposing views. My whole point was that we should be willing to flesh out the details and let the movement decide when people get accused of some wrongdoing. not one positive thing has come from letting group leaders decide in back rooms who is good or who is bad. Instead, this procedure has contributed heavily to mistrust, misuse of stature, self promotion, and above all else, loss of good activists.

[DerailAmnesty.com]

The demise of SOS is imminent. I make that statement not out of happiness, but out of sadness, because the demise of SOS is unnecessary and can be laid at the feet of two people...Joe Turner and Chelene Nightingale.

A. Three of four months ago, I'd have agreed with you, but not anymore. It's gotten to the point where I don't think SOS is salvageable. It is irreparably damaged. Too much has been said, too much time has gone by with all the nastiness and poison, etc. etc. so I wouldn't be sad if it goes belly up. In fact, I think that's the best thing. It's become too much of a freak show. There are too many credibility problem causing things that reflect (fairly or not) on people who had visible membership.

I believe the best thing Turner could do is pull the plug and turn out the lights ... and I'm not happy about having that opinion.

B. The demise of SOS is ultimately Joe's fault, not Chelene's. It's his organization and he has the final say. He handed her the keys, either didn't pay close attention, didn't care, or both. People pleaded with him for assistance and he did little or nothing.

Chelene's ability to cause trouble is directly related to whatever power he extended to her, and that power was to control the message board. Period. Without it, she's essentially finished. He never took it from her and we're in the position we're in today.

... you have to apply the same standards to OP as you do with Chelene, or me or any of us for that matter. If you do that, the question is whether their activism outweighs the negative characteristics or negative impact on the movement and the SOS organization.

We have a substantive disagreement. There is no comparison between PD and OP. Yeah, both are bipeds, have had membership in SOS, dislike illegal immigration and are carbon based forms of life, and that's roughly where the similarities end.

Chelene has been an expanding, aggressive cancer. And one, I might add, with no allegiance to, or propensity for, the truth.

Ask yourself this: If you had to organize an immigration protest somehere in So. California to be held next month; meaning you have to assemble and invite bodies to put at an event, how many good activists would you have to either write off or worry about their ability to attend/co-exist for a few hours/participate because of something (anything) that ultimately can be traced back to something Chelene said or did within the past two years?

[BluHaven]

that will be taken directly from the insane rantings of the leader whose cult Bobby is part of.

I don't know about all the inside stuff, but ya, a bit cult-ish came to my mind as well, guess I'm not the only one who thought of it that way.

[AyatollahGondola]

A. Three of four months ago, I'd have agreed with you, but not anymore. It's gotten to the point where I don't think SOS is salvageable. It is irreparably damaged. Too much has been said, too much time has gone by with all the nastiness and poison, etc. etc. so I wouldn't be sad if it goes belly up. In fact, I think that's the best thing. It's become too much of a freak show. There are too many credibility problem causing things that reflect (fairly or not) on people who had visible membership.

I believe the best thing Turner could do is pull the plug and turn out the lights ... and I'm not happy about having that opinion.

B. The demise of SOS is ultimately Joe's fault, not Chelene's. It's his organization and he has the final say. He handed her the keys, either didn't pay close attention, didn't care, or both. People pleaded with him for assistance and he did little or nothing.

Chelene's ability to cause trouble is directly related to whatever power he extended to her, and that power was to control the message board. Period. Without it, she's essentially finished. He never took it from her and we're in the position we're in today.





We have a substantive disagreement. There is no comparison between PD and OP. Yeah, both are bipeds, have had membership in SOS, dislike illegal immigration and are carbon based forms of life, and that's roughly where the similarities end.

Chelene has been an expanding, aggressive cancer. And one, I might add, with no allegiance to, or propensity for, the truth.

Ask yourself this: If you had to organize an immigration protest somehere in So. California to be held next month; meaning you have to assemble and invite bodies to put at an event, how many good activists would you have to either write off or worry about their ability to attend/co-exist for a few hours/participate because of something (anything) that ultimately can be traced back to something Chelene said or did within the past two years?

I would agree that fielding activists has been a challenge due to her meddling in relationships in some fashion or another. I was not as close to OP as I was to PD, so I'm just basing my opinion on some of the actions he took. In direct regard to your question though, OP did, in my opinion, drive away some good activists after they held a decent protest up here. since then, they have avoided SOS events like a plague. So while the results are similar, their techniques were different. In addition, OP had a shorter run with control than PD. And while OP was in the driver seat, Joe Turner was a little more involved or at least closer to the org.
I was not meaning to say that OP and PD were duplicates at all. I'd still go to an OP event today, but you'd have to have an incredibly compelling reason to convince me to rally with PD again.

[AyatollahGondola]

The internet hit squad strikes again:

For those not in the know, Chelene, Jeff Schwilk, and a few others have teamed up to make a coalition of sorts in an effort to control the publicity about the immigration law enforcement/ border security movement. The main thrust of their effort has been Gilchrist thus far, however they also have brought their weight to bear against me as well. Part of their "team" was also William Gheen from Alipac. The west coast coalition joined with Gheen's Alipac to present a better, and supposedly more united front against the Gilchrist minuteman Project. I have been included as an enemy of this coalition for my challenge to the process. Gheen appeared to take no side in this matter, but then I'm nowhere near the stature of Gilchrist. Now William Gheen has included Glenn Spencer in his internet hit piece. I must admit, I thought gheen had better sense than to try and hurt Glenn Spencer. While Chelene and Schwilk throw caution to the wind regularly in their quest, Gheen seemed to me a bit more reserved in the past.
Glenn Spencer is no Jim Gilchrist. Glenn Spencer has been active in this movement ten years before Jim Gilchrist thought about our Southern border. Glenn Spencer is respected by so many people in this movement that anyone making charges against him is going to be seen as a most foolish and unreliable person. I have no idea what william thinks he has to gain by lynching Glenn. I cannot believe he has calculated the risks to his own credibility. I'm quite surprised really. But then again, look who his associates are.....

We Get E-Mail
William Gheen is an Idiot

By Glenn Spencer -- American Border Patrol

June 29, 2009

From ALIPAC Website:

http://www.alipac.us/

ALIPAC NOTE: “We warned the nation and all group leaders, including Spencer and Gilchrist, about Shawna Forde many months before these murders.”

SPENCER’S COMMENT: I don’t recall ever hearing anything from ALIPAC about Forde. I e-mailed him today and asked for proof and got back a form e-mail.

Anyway, I didn’t need a warning from this Gheen, as I had alerted my staff that Forde was trouble nearly a year ago; months before Gheen claims to have warned me about Forde.

But Mr. Gheen could have (and probably did) read all about Forde and I in my “Full Disclosure” piece.

GHEEN: “It is truly unfortunate that Gilchrist and others continued to offer Shawna support and aid long after all other groups and leaders in the movement did our best to isolate her. These latest articles show us that Gilchrist and Spencer assisted Shawna Forde after the date of the murders.”

SPENCER’S COMMENT: I assisted Shawna Forde? How? I was sitting in my office and she walked in, uninvited. I knew nothing of the alleged murders at the time. I let her sit down in another room and send an e-mail, and then she left. That was the only time I had seen her since August of 2008!

GHEEN: “If Jim Gilchrist and Glen (sic) Spencer had listened to the rest of the movement after Shawna Forde and Jim Gilchrist tried to circulate fake rape and beating pictures of Shawna, it would have been clear to Forde that she had no reason to be on Spencer's property or in regular phone and e-mail contact with Jim Gilchrist (Co-Founder of Minuteman Project).

“These men continued to associate with Shawna Forde long after it became very clear to the vast majority of leaders in our movement that she was unstable and dangerous. Gilchrist and Spencer gave assistance to Shawna Forde long after an organized effort of multiple groups such as Save Our State, San Diego Minutemen, and ALIPAC were launched to warn the movement as well as quarantine and isolate Gilchrist and Forde.”

SPENCER’S COMMENT: Shawna Forde had visited ABP’s ranch 3 times; Feb., March and Aug. of 2008. After the August visit I instructed our people that she was no longer welcome. That was months before her “rape” problem and the alleged murders.

After the reports of the so-called rape I reiterated my position that she was unstable and not welcome as a guest on the ranch.

I knew Shawna Forde was a problem long before this guy Gheen said anything, if he ever did, and I made my position clear to everyone here on the ranch.

The idea that I would put the reputation of American Border Patrol at risk by assisting someone that I knew to be unstable is outrageous and slanderous.

Gheen says I “continued to assist her.” What nonsense!

By making these totally false accusations with no evidence whatsoever to back them up, Mr. Gheen has proven himself to be unprofessional and exploitative of the problems of unfortunate people like Shawna Forde. He is doing this to make money by tearing his “competitors” down, pure and simple.

There is really only one way to deal with people like Mr. Gheen and it is not to mince words. To wit: Wm. Gheen is an idiot.

And you can quote me.

Glenn Spencer
American Border Patrol

[kjl]

Anyone who had any association with Forde is being thrown under the bus. That's their plan for distancing themselves from her. A bit of an over reaction and in time may backfire.

[AyatollahGondola]

Anyone who had any association with Forde is being thrown under the bus. That's their plan for distancing themselves from her. A bit of an over reaction and in time may backfire.

Not placing much distance between them by drawing the worlds attention to the whole affair. The way Americans make associations, it would be best not to have your name mentioned anywhere near hers.

[sandinator]

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[PochoPatriot]

It seems to me that this whole incident is being blown out of proportion. It is one thing to distance an organization from this alleged murderer. It is quite another to being a demonization of other organizations with guilt by association.

[kjl]

It seems to me that this whole incident is being blown out of proportion. It is one thing to distance an organization from this alleged murderer. It is quite another to being a demonization of other organizations with guilt by association.

I agree with that.

[AyatollahGondola]

I cannot for the life of me figure Gheen out on this,

Surely he must have gone mad. Glenn spencer for christs sakes! Glenn has some years...well actually a decade on all of us in this movement. He's been ringing this bell for almost 20 years, and has not only survived, but became a hero to many of us for his perserverance and dedication. Glenn has been fighting the reconquista crowds finger pointing through several administrations and their appointed henchmen.

[ohighlass]

Hello, people! I know that I have personally pissed off a couple of you and would like to apologize for anything said or done in the heat of "the battle"; and that battle being illegal immigration.

All of other stuff on the SOS website now festering is a sideshow, and should be laughed at and ignored. It is painful to read here about how so many of you have been chided and slammed by "them" over there. There are some over there that I do hold dear, still. However, that being said...

I am happy to see FBIS growing. I always respected you, AG....and your coffin (heheh). Sandi, you and your bullhorn should win some sort of an award, of the good kind, for sure!

Thanks for keeping the fire lit and for sane and reasonable commentary. I peek in over at SOS from time to time and really miss the way it used to be when we were allowed to actually slam the goons and say what was on our minds.

, enough said,
OHL

[sandinator]

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