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  #11  
Old 09-22-2009, 08:41 AM
ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AyatollahGondola View Post
Thank god that names already been taken. I shudder to to think about any new legislation initiated in the San Francisco area should it have been available
The Peter Act of 2009 -Harvey Milk Day.
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  #12  
Old 09-22-2009, 02:31 PM
ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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Information added to a previous post, re-posted here


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It is my belief that state mobilization of the National Guard has been generally unarmed since Kent State. http://history1900s.about.com/od/1970s/qt/kentstate.htm
Quote:
Katrina: Governor Orders Troops to Shoot and Kill Looters
http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/arc..._troops_will_/

Despair is also affecting those in New Orleans charged with protecting the city, said State Police Superintendent Col. H.L. Whitehorn. Some New Orleans police officers have resigned rather than face the violence in the city. “It’s my understanding those who have resigned said they have lost everything and it’s not worth being shot at and losing their lives,” Whitehorn said. Whitehorn said he did not know the specific number of police officers who have quit their jobs.

******

Under riot conditions, shooting armed perpetrators in the midst of violence may be a necessary evil. Shooting unarmed television thieves, though, is hard to justify. And, of course, without benefit of a trial we may wind up shooting people “stealing” their own possessions.
Quote:
While on patrol in a mostly vacant part of New Orleans about 1 a.m. on March 9, National Guard troops spotted Terry Burton riding a bicycle and carrying a hacksaw. A National Guard spokesman later told reporters that the guardsmen followed the 53-year-old Burton, who National Public Radio described as "mentally ill", because there had been many thefts of copper pipe in the area. When the soldiers approached Burton he reportedly threatened them with a knife, and then threw broken glass at them, injuring a sergeant.

The guardsmen then followed Burton into an empty house, where he pointed what appeared to be a rifle at them. After one soldier shot Burton several times, killing him at the scene, they learned that he was only holding a BB gun.
The guardsman was removed from patrol duty, the spokesman said.
http://www.inclusiondaily.com/archiv...7lakatrina.htm
Quote:
A new study by a Tulane University professor puts New Orleans' murder rate as the highest in the country.
The study estimates the city's 2006 murder rate at 96 per every 100,000 people.
In 2005, the year Katrina hit, the rate was 65 per every 100,000 people, according to VanLandingham's study....

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpa...220.xml&coll=1

Last edited by ilbegone : 09-22-2009 at 02:39 PM.
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  #13  
Old 09-22-2009, 03:10 PM
ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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Excerpts from a long, long, article concerning the Louisiana National Guard response to Katrina
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...ia_missed.html

Quote:
"This process quickly resulted in the largest National Guard deployment in U.S. history, with 50,000 troops and supporting equipment arriving from 49 states and four territories within two weeks. These forces participated in every aspect of emergency response, from medical care to law enforcement and debris removal... "

Quote:
Remember the dozens, maybe hundreds, of rapes, murders, stabbings and deaths resulting from official neglect at the Superdome after Hurricane Katrina? The ones that never happened, as even the national media later admitted?

...The situation was always under control, not surprisingly because the people in control were always there.
From the Dome, the Louisiana Guard's main command ran at least 2,500 troops who rode out the storm inside the city, a dozen emergency shelters, 200-plus boats, dozens of high-water vehicles, 150 helicopters, and a triage and medical center that handled up to 5,000 patients (and delivered 7 babies). The Guard command headquarters also coordinated efforts of the police, firefighters and scores of volunteers after the storm knocked out local radio, as well as other regular military and other state Guard units.
Jack Harrison, a spokesman for the National Guard Bureau in Arlington, Virginia, cited "10,244 sorties flown, 88,181 passengers moved, 18,834 cargo tons hauled, 17,411 saves" by air. Unlike the politicians, they had a working chain of command that commandeered more relief aid from other Guard units outside the state. From day one.

There were problems, true: FEMA melted down. Political leaders, from the Mayor to Governor to the White House, showed "A Failure of Initiative", as a recent House report put it. That report, along with sharply critical studies by the White House and the Senate, delve into the myriad of breakdowns, shortages and miscommunications that hampered relief efforts.

"TV of the Superdome was perplexing to most folks," Thompson said. "You had them playing the tapes of the same incidents over and over, it tends to bias your thinking some, you tend to think it's worse than it really is." Official estimates at this point suggest the Guard, working from the Dome, saved 17,000 by air and uncounted thousands more by boat.

"This process quickly resulted in the largest National Guard deployment in U.S. history, with 50,000 troops and supporting equipment arriving from 49 states and four territories within two weeks. These forces participated in every aspect of emergency response, from medical care to law enforcement and debris removal... "

The biggest story everyone missed was that the guys in charge - and you're entitled to your own political persuasion here - weren't out-of-touch FEMA bureaucrats, or a president somewhere fund-raising, or a paralyzed governor in Baton Rouge, or a mayor hanging out with his crew at a posh hotel a block away.

most of the rescue operation was run by local National Guard middle management, combat tested in Iraq, accustomed to hardship, and intimately familiar with the city. (In fact, as I previously reported, Guard members rescued other Guard members, who then reported for flight duty.)

The priorities were search, rescue and lifesaving, not the comfort level of survivors they rescued who they knew would survive somehow if they sorted out the sick from the healthy.

The Guard spent the week after Katrina in an exquisite balancing act between the needs of healthy survivors in the Dome, the care of the sick and injured in the Arena, and hauling in the tens of thousands who faced death on rooftops and in attics.

FEMA failed miserably. Yet the Coast Guard, a branch of the much-maligned Department of Homeland Security, operated precisely according to plan and saved up to 30,000 lives amid near total destruction. The National Guard Bureau helped run the show. The State Guard and regular military, which owes its extraordinary professionalism to the administration's insistence on training and equipage for service in Iraq, saved tens of thousands more.

Last edited by ilbegone : 09-22-2009 at 03:18 PM.
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  #14  
Old 09-23-2009, 04:45 AM
ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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I slept on it before writing this post. Yesterday I didn't have any certain idea what Posse Comitatus was, got curious, and followed up. Posted what I found.

I have no idea who called out a small unit of the Arizona National Guard, nor why it was deemed necessary to use Guardsmen rather than hire Rent-A-Warm-Body, Inc., but it was perfectly legal under the circumstances. The gentleman was unarmed and performing an innocuous duty concerning traffic control.

The date is unclear ("18TH OF 2009"). It seems to have been during summer, and time was stated to have been about 4:45pm with follow up about an hour later.

I saw a young man standing in the sun, no hat [viewing again, he was wearing a hat, most of the view was below gentleman's nose], no visible source of water. He was probably extremely bored, and likely experiencing one or all of the following:

Heat; thirst; aching feet; itching hemorrhoids; rude drivers who believe they have been wrongly inconvenienced and have something to say or a hand gesture to display.

So, standing there holding that silly Route 66 flag and wearing that hot orange vest which drivers tend to ignore, he was probably fantasizing about sitting under an air conditioning vent with a nice, cold beer in his hand (freshly delivered by an attractive young woman) making that first trip from the table to his lips, boots unlaced, refreshment cascading down his throat while the angel adoringly looks on. And delivers another one.

Just after he made his day a little longer by consulting his watch, his reverie was broken by a couple of pushy people who harangue him about the Constitution and Posse Comitatus.


The helicopter gunship flick, with a time of 12:50 am in broad daylight doesn't mean much. As noted before, they might have spotted some nude sunbathers and the women were putting on a show for them. Or the crews might have been putting on a pre-arranged show for some kids who were related to one of the crew. I saw military aircraft nearly every day in three regions in which I lived for over thirty years. The pilots did all kinds of stuff to get their kicks and relieve boredom, from freaking out drivers by buzzing cars to hovering over green houses on the hopeful chance the owner was a paranoid pot grower who would be compelled to yank his plants. And, there were some who liked to buzz the nudist colony from time to time.

No evidence of "martial law" in that flick

Those flicks, with bad audio dressed up with cheesy 1950's science fiction sound effects, remind me of the noise I've been ignoring about all those concentration camps with guards and Constantine wire topped fenced enclosures. When I did find one which referenced an identifiable location, it turned out to be a housing tract. Not an observation tower or guarded gate anywhere around.

About the same genre.

Last edited by ilbegone : 09-23-2009 at 11:48 AM.
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